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(S4)2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
chrislindy Offline
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Post: #1
(S4)2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Please note that Harv is the commish of this league, but since there is some interest from non-CE sites, I wanted to get the rules over here. All are subject to change pending the commish's authority, so please check back for updates.

This is the 4th year of the CEBE, so Harv is still very flexible about suggestions for making these better. If enough people want to change something it will be changed.
Rules have been taken from another league that seems to be doing pretty well so hopefully these rules will work for us too.

You can post any questions or suggestions in this thread.

Article I (player pool)
A reminder that this is a Big East fantasy league and only Big East players are allowed in the league.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2012 01:42 PM by HarveyGlass.)
10-05-2010 08:08 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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RE: 2010-2011 Official Rules Thread
Article II (Scoring)
Games will be played weekly (Monday through Sunday) with teams being scored head-to-head against their opponents in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and free throw percentage. Each category will be scored separately so that five wins will be at stake each week. If a team sweeps all five categories, they get an extra win with the sweepee taking an extra loss.

Lineups must be posted prior to Monday at noon (Eastern time). The lineup will consist of two guards, two forwards, one center, and one utility player (any position). Each player can play a maximum of two games. If the player has more than two games in a week, the owner can designate which two games should count. Otherwise, the first two games of the week will be used. If a new lineup is not posted, I will use the previous week's lineup. If the lineup does not comply with the rules, the team will lose 0-5 forfeit (but the extra sweep win and loss will not be credited).
10-05-2010 08:09 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 2010-2011 Official Rules Thread
Article III (Waivers)
Waivers will be on a first come, first serve basis. You are only allowed to add (and cut) one player per week and the player will be eligible the following week. Waiver wire opens Mondays at noon. Eastern time is the standard.
10-05-2010 08:09 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #4
RE: 2010-2011 Official Rules Thread
Article IV (Trades)
Trades can be made at any time until four weeks before the season ending tournament, at which point no further trades are allowed. Both parties need to email me or send me a private message for the trade to be complete. In the case of unbalanced trades (two for one, three for two, etc.), extra players can be picked up - apart from the one waiver pickup.

If I deem a trade is collusive, both owners will be expelled from the league immediately. By collusive, I don't mean stupid or risky, I mean indefensible. In other words, it would have to be really bad.

All trades require 33% league approval to be completed. However, all non-votes are counted as yes-votes meaning that participation is only required if you intend to vote against a trade.
10-05-2010 08:10 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #5
RE: 2010-2011 Official Rules Thread
Article V (Eligibility)
For the draft, we are going to use the positions listed on the spreadsheet I send out to determine eligibility. Spreadsheet is coming, probably within the week.

Once the seasons starts, if you can point me to an official resource (preferably the team's official website or ESPN) that grants another position, then I will make the change.
10-05-2010 08:11 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 2010-2011 Official Rules Thread
Article VI (Tiebreakers)
During the regular season, ties will not be broken.

If there are ties in the tournament, the team with the fewer games played in that week will move on. The second tie breaker will be regular season rank (the higher ranked team moving on).
10-05-2010 08:12 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #7
RE: 2010-2011 Official Rules Thread
Those are the current rules, folks. As mentioned above, Harv is commish of this league and all references of "I" should be interpreted as Harv.

If you have any suggestions for rule changes or questions, please post here.
10-05-2010 08:13 AM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Rules thread bumped up for 2011-2012 season. No new rule changes for this year I suppose.
10-04-2011 04:58 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #9
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
No new scoring categories or roster settings? I know those were hot-button issues last year.

I will say that a quick look of the rosters shows another shallow player pool at center. I really think we should consider changing the C spot to a F/C option and give CEBE teams the option to play a 3 forward lineup like a lot of Big East teams do.
10-04-2011 08:28 PM
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DieHardCards Offline
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Post: #10
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I'd kind of like the idea of a 3 forward lineup possibility. However, I think it should only be limited to true forwards. A G/F wont work. I team could essentially play a G/F at center and a guard utility and have 4 guard of your 6 players. Heavy advantage to pick up the win with scoring, steals, assists, and FT%. It's already a little too guard oriented as it is. A height restriction would be nice like it has been talked about before.
10-04-2011 10:29 PM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #11
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
No scoring changes and we definitely need a center position. Just use your better judgment when making C's and F/C's.
10-05-2011 06:22 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #12
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Making or picking? I've already stretched the position assignments to the limit and we're still going to be short on centers again. Unless you want me to start qualifying Rakeem Buckles and Jared Swopshire as centers, there's gonna be some problems.
10-05-2011 08:03 AM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #13
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Surely there are 12 viable Centers or Forward/Centers in the 16-team BigEast.
10-05-2011 11:38 AM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #14
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Not superstud Centers, just viable. The Wheats won it all last year with entirely forgettable performances from their championship ring-wearing Center.......Kadeem Batts.
10-05-2011 11:53 AM
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J-Rye_UL Offline
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Post: #15
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I think the center position is a must. My thought has always been to include FG% instead of FT% which will up the value of a quality big man.

Only new rule change I would propose is to have a waiver order instead of first come first served. A lot of people can't be on their cpu at Noon sharp to post a waiver, so it shifts the balance of power in an unfair way IMO.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2011 12:54 PM by J-Rye_UL.)
10-05-2011 12:52 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #16
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I'd be cool with waiver wires, but only in specific set-up.

1) Initial waiver order is determined by REVERSE order of draft. If you had the last pick of the CEBE draft, you get the first waiver priority in Week 1.
2) Once you claim a waiver, you drop to the bottom of the pool. If the person with waiver priority #2 does not take a waiver player in Week 1, he becomes #1 until he uses his waiver.
3) Once all waivers are processed for the week, anyone who did not make a waiver claim can still come in and pick up a FA without losing their waiver priority for the following week.
10-05-2011 01:13 PM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #17
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
That sounds good EL but I'm confused about #3. What's the difference between a waiver pick up and a FA pick up?
10-05-2011 01:18 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Basically someone could decide, "None of the high-demand pick-ups are that great. I'm not going to make a claim for Monday at noon."

So teams 2, 3, 5, 6, and 8 get waivers of their players. After those 5 teams pick someone up, let's say Team 1 has an injury and has to go in and make a pick-up Thursday. He didn't participate in the waiver process, but has later decided he wants/needs a player. Since he didn't pick anyone up in the initial waiver process, I personally think he shouldn't be penalized if he comes in later and grabs someone that obviously no one else wanted (since that player wasn't claimed on waiver).

There's a similar process in most fantasy football leagues. If you don't make a claim, then all other players who are not on a team become FA's and it's fair game to pick those people up without relinquishing your waiver spot for next week. FA pick-ups would freeze when the first Big East game of the week starts (to avoid situations where someone rushes in to claim the guy who just went off for 23 and 10 boards, the exact issue J-Rye is bringing up with the whole process as it currently stands).

One other thought... we'd have to be very clear that you need to order your waiver preferences (up to 5?). If you are 6th on the waiver list, there's a decent chance you're not getting your first pick. But at the same time, if you have another guy you absolutely want, you NEED to make that claim so someone below you on the waiver doesn't get him in the waiver process.

Example 2: Empire and Fugs are waiver order 5 & 7 this week. Elisha Justice just became the starting PG for UofL and is available along with Ahston Gibbs and Vincent Council (bear with me here). I want Council mosts, then Gibbs, but would take Justice if someone ahead of me claims Council & Gibbs first. You have Justice as your #1 waiver, so if I don't put an ordered waiver preference in, you'd end up with Justice even though I had higher waiver priority. Again, this is the way waivers work in most fantasy football leagues.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2011 01:35 PM by chrislindy.)
10-05-2011 01:33 PM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #19
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
That sounds pretty complex. In that case we're also back to having a limited time to claim a player which is what we we're trying to avoid in the first place. Why not just go in order every week, with each claimant falling to the bottom for the next week, but have no time limit except for the end of the week as usual.

I'm not big on the idea of timed and not timed pickups, excess pick shuffling, backdoor pickups etc. I like simple. lol
10-05-2011 01:43 PM
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J-Rye_UL Offline
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Post: #20
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I'm up for adopting the same waiver rules as any Fantasy NFL league.

One question about this though:
"FA pick-ups would freeze when the first Big East game of the week starts (to avoid situations where someone rushes in to claim the guy who just went off for 23 and 10 boards)"

Question: If the Big East games start Monday at 7pm, then FA pickups would have to freeze after that point. That kindof defeats the purpose of FA pickups. IMO, we ought to count ANY pickup as a waiver and move that person to the bottom of the list when it is made. Each person gets one waiver pickup per week. You can choose to do it on Monday in the established order, or bypass your Monday waiver and pickup someone later in the week if you're waiting for a breakout performance (moving you to the back of the line).
10-05-2011 01:44 PM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
How bout all waivers being submitted to me via PM and on Sunday I'll announce who got what. If your guy was picked up before your turn then you're SOL for that week but you don't drop a spot the next week.
10-05-2011 01:55 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I think a blind bid and only allowing one claim really screws those folks who are at the bottom of the waiver order. Now not only do you have to put in a claim, but you have to figure out who might be available when it gets to your turn. At least in the old way you knew who you could pick up.

And J-Rye, you have a good point. Maybe instead of freezing ALL Big East FA's when the first game starts, we can free FA's when THEIR first game of the week starts. So say Pitt and Cuse play Monday night. Well, you can still pick up players from the other 14 teams, but you can't grab Dante Taylor when he starts the season and puts up a HUGE game.

If we can't agree to cutting off the FA window before each team's first game, we're only replacing the current problem with another one. Essentially I'd avoid waivers unless a sure-fire guy was available. Better to see what guys do (see: Casey Mitchell) than pick blind before the games start.
10-05-2011 02:23 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
(10-05-2011 01:55 PM)HarveyGlass Wrote:  How bout all waivers being submitted to me via PM and on Sunday I'll announce who got what. If your guy was picked up before your turn then you're SOL for that week but you don't drop a spot the next week.

Would you be allowed to go back in and pick up someone else after the waiver process?
10-05-2011 02:24 PM
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Post: #24
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
No because its highly likely, at least early on that 4 or 5 or more people tried to get the same guy. That would probably leave some juicy players out there for the next weeks waivers, which the losers would have better odds to get. Or you could play a little strategy and make your Week 1 pick one of the less juicy picks to make sure you don't get shut out. It could be a fun mechanic to add to the league.
10-05-2011 02:32 PM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I think my suggestion may lengthen the interest in waivers by keeping good quality players available later into the year. It would also likely give plenty of time to scout guys.

Suppose a FA has a breakout game in Week 1 while 2 other FAs have monster games. Do you go for one of the studs on the chance he may get through, do you pickup the sleeper thinking the studs are gone, or do you just wait another week to scout again and improve your order position? I'd guess there would be a good chance of at least one of the three being there next week and probably a few more Week 2 breakout players. Then, all of the sudden in Week 2 you've got more options and more players conceivably slipping through to Week 3 Waivers.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2011 02:43 PM by HarveyGlass.)
10-05-2011 02:40 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Disagree. I'd have to go back and check, but all the good FA's were gone by week 2 in the past two seasons. Plus we're getting smarter as a league... I don't think a bunch of Casey Mitchells are going to sit on waivers like they have in the first two seasons. Sure, maybe a team or two loads up on Louisville bench players, but I suspect we're not going to see the recent trend of the top 10 UofL guys being drafted.

As always, the commish is wise. I just think if I'm picking 7th it would be nice to order a few options instead of trying to figure out if my first 1/2/3 choices are going to get taken before my turn comes.
10-05-2011 02:53 PM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #27
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
That's kind of the whole point of having a waiver order. It can't be both a free-for-all and an ordered selection. It can't be "Oh I didn't get the guy I wanted so I get another pick."

I really think we're going to be looking at, say 6 good FAs after Week 1 and with a blind ordered pick I would bet that half of them would be added to another handful of viable players for Week 2 waivers, bumping that crop up to 7 or 8 to choose from, and bumping up the pick order for those who missed out the first week, giving a greater depth of players--if lesser quality--to the teams with the lower picks to start. Plus, the teams with lower waiver picks are the ones with the top5 draft picks so that's kind of nice for them. ;P

Anyway, its all conjecture at this point. We've still got plenty of time to figure something out.
10-05-2011 03:16 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Or, in your example, it sounds like you'll be giving the lucky Week 1 waiver winners an almost guaranteed shot of another waiver win in Week 2.

I'll top bickering now...
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2011 03:29 PM by chrislindy.)
10-05-2011 03:29 PM
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HarveyGlass Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
The winner(s) of players Week 1 get moved to the end of the line in Week 2. So if they're getting another player in Week 2 it's either a much lesser player than the rest or it's because nobody else wanted anybody in Week 2.

Its an ordered waiver line, so #1 will get 1st choice in Week 1 and if they get a player they move to the 12th pick in Week 2.
10-05-2011 04:07 PM
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J-Rye_UL Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I'm a little lost. Tell me if this is right:

Waiver Order week 1:
1)A - Picks up player Z
2)B - wanted player Z, but now picks up no one
3)C - wanted Z, but chose Y as a 2nd option and got him
4)D - Picked up player X on Thursday

Waiver order week 2:
1) B
2) A (has player Z)
3) C (has player Y)
4) D (has player X)

Basically a long way of saying ... "Move to last after claim, never reset order - The team which makes the most recent pickup is automatically moved to the last slot." [stolen from ESPN's NBA waiver rules]
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2011 07:52 PM by J-Rye_UL.)
10-05-2011 07:42 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #31
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
(10-05-2011 07:42 PM)J-Rye_UL Wrote:  I'm a little lost. Tell me if this is right:

Waiver Order week 1:
1)A - Picks up player Z
2)B - wanted player Z, but now picks up no one
3)C - wanted Z, but chose Y as a 2nd option and got him
4)D - Picked up player X on Thursday

Waiver order week 2:
1) B
2) A (has player Z)
3) C (has player Y)
4) D (has player X)

Basically a long way of saying ... "Move to last after claim, never reset order - The team which makes the most recent pickup is automatically moved to the last slot." [stolen from ESPN's NBA waiver rules]

You asking me or Harv, J? Under Harv's rules, Team D won't even get to make that pick-up. At least if I understand him correctly he won't be able to. Team C wouldn't get to have a 2nd choice. So the Week 2 waiver would be:

B
C
D
A

Under my rules, A and C would get pick-ups and fall in the waiver order for Week 2. Since Team D picked up his guy in FA, he doesn't lose his waiver priority (it's free agency, not waivers). So in Week 2, waiver order would be:

B
D
A
C

This is the method that ESPN, Yahoo!, and everyone else I know do their waiver rules.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2011 08:12 PM by chrislindy.)
10-05-2011 08:11 PM
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J-Rye_UL Offline
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Post: #32
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
(10-05-2011 08:11 PM)chrislindy Wrote:  This is the method that ESPN, Yahoo!, and everyone else I know do their waiver rules.
ESPN sends you to the back of the waiver order any time you pick someone up. At least that was my interpretation, and that gets my vote. If you want to wait and see how someone plays to pick them up later in the week, then you should move to the back of the waiver list after making your pick. Unless you start freezing players after they play, but then it gets really comlicated for Harv and everyone else trying to keep up with waivers.
10-05-2011 10:53 PM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #33
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I'd be happy to manage the waiver process if Harv is OK with it and doesn't want to mess with the method that is used in other fantasy leagues. I wil say that you are correct that any WAIVER move puts a person at the end of the line. But if we do a waiver Monday, FA pick-ups until the player's team plays its first game of the week (be that Monday night or Friday), then lock-down players until the following week once their team has begun league play for the week, there should be an opportunity for someone to make a pick-up without using their waiver order.

If we're complaining about the free-for-all that is the current waiver system, I don't think we should be allowing pick-ups once a team has played a game. That is my primary point of contention.
10-06-2011 07:42 AM
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Post: #34
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
In our league there has never been a difference between a "waiver" pick up and a "FA" pickup. I don't understand why this is now necessary unless it's to give people who don't get what they want a second pick every week. All that is going to do is once again give the quickest Monday pickers yet another way to rob the pool. And with all the extra chances teams have, the FA pool will be dry almost immediately.


Here's the way i see it...
Let's say there are six teams. In reverse order from their draft picks, Week 1 Waiver picks are #1 Empire, #2 Fuglys, #3 Ballers, #4 Wheats, #5 Moonwalkers, and #6 Buzz.

At any time during Week 1 the teams are allowed to send me just one pick for their waiver choice. It doesn't matter what order the picks are received.

...The Empire wants Player A, and they will get him because they have the first pick.
...The Fuglys also wanted Player A and thought the Empire might have missed his 40 point opening game. They gambled and lost. The Fugs get no one this week and will move to the 1st pick for Week 2 Waivers.
...The Ballers thought the top2 players would be gone by now so they picked Player C and they get him.
...The Wheats like their team and didn't pick anyone.
...The Moonwalkers, with the 5th pick, picked the 5th best player(in their opinion) and they got Player E.
...The Buzz waited until Saturday to send in his pick and it paid off by nabbing a late-week breakout player in Player G.

Results are thus...
Week 2 waiver order is #1 Fuglys, #2 Wheats, #3 Buzz, #4 Moonwalkers, #5 Ballers, #6 Empire.
In Week 1, Players B, D, and F weren't chosen and are carried over to the Week 2 player pool.
10-06-2011 09:23 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #35
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I think you're missing the component where Buzz can't see the player have his late-week breakout game. Once that player's team starts playing their first game of the week, that player is locked and cannot be chosen until the waivers open in Week 2. I don't see why we would leave that free-for-all open while trying to close up the Monday free-for-all.
10-06-2011 10:18 AM
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J-Rye_UL Offline
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Post: #36
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
Only thing I really care about is this...

We need to be able to submit multiple choices for waivers if the guys in front of you do, or don't, pick them up. Trying to guess what the guy in front of you will do will lead to some issues
10-06-2011 10:29 AM
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DieHardCards Offline
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Post: #37
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
I like Harv's plan. Anything where it isn't dependent on the person fastest to get here at noon on monday.
10-07-2011 01:02 AM
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chrislindy Offline
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Post: #38
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
(10-07-2011 01:02 AM)DieHardCards Wrote:  I like Harv's plan. Anything where it isn't dependent on the person fastest to get here at noon on monday.

But you're OK with the back end where someone has to be fastest to the computer when a Casey Mitchell blows up on Thursday?
10-07-2011 07:43 AM
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Post: #39
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
No players are frozen or locked out. That's never been an issue in season's past and shouldn't be one this year.

Players can send their one waiver pick, via PM, to me at any time up until say Saturday at 8pm. The order I receive them in is meaningless. I don't get where you're coming from EL. Nobody has to be fastest to do anything.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2011 10:46 AM by HarveyGlass.)
10-07-2011 10:15 AM
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Post: #40
RE: 2011-2012 Official Rules Thread
(10-06-2011 10:29 AM)J-Rye_UL Wrote:  Only thing I really care about is this...

We need to be able to submit multiple choices for waivers if the guys in front of you do, or don't, pick them up. Trying to guess what the guy in front of you will do will lead to some issues

I think the only issue would be you either getting the player you want or you don't get him.

I'm thinking that this is a fair way to do it(using ordered picks) but it's still fun for everybody because there's a chance that you may still get good players at the end of the order.
10-07-2011 10:50 AM
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